Joe “You lie! Wilson did not get in trouble for what he said.
It was where he said it.
Anyone is free to say anything they like, but some places do have rules, don’t they? We don’t say “bomb” in an airport for any reason whatsoever, except perhaps there being an actual bomb. We don’t say “fire” in a theater for any reason whatsoever, except perhaps there being an actual fire. Certainly, everyone is still entirely free to say “bomb” in an airport or “fire” in a theater, but I guarantee there will be repercussions, and rightly so. Those are just two examples of ways in which speech is limited for a valid reason and there being repercussions for non-compliance.
The U.S. House of Representatives has rules for what language and behavior is acceptable on the floor of the House. They are not new rules. They exist for a reason: enforcing a preferred level of civility among our all-too-human elected officials. We watch videos of fisticuffs on the floors of other governing bodies “houses” on YouTube, and we laugh and call them crazy, as if there isn’t much more than a thin veneer of enforced civility keeping our own elected officials from behaving in exactly the same manner. They are, after all, just as human as the rest of the world.
The reason Joe Wilson’s inappropriate outburst has caused such a stir is the simple fact that such occurrences in our own governing body are extremely rare†. They are so rare some people are only now discovering there are rules of conduct in the House of Representatives. Now imagine it wasn’t rare or the rules didn’t exist. How long do you think it would take for order to completely break down and fisticuffs to be at least a once a session event? I’d give it a year. I’m probably being generous.
Joe Wilson could have stepped into the hall immediately following the speech, grabbed the first cameraman and reporter he saw, and called the President of the United States a liar for as long as he could keep the reporter’s attention. Certainly, someone would have issued a rebuttal or a statement, and some people would still be laughing at him or calling him a hero, depending on their political slant, but there wouldn’t have actually been any reprimand or serious repercussions. He might have been thought a fool, but he wouldn’t have gotten written up at work.
There are countless rules of conduct –both written and unwritten– in our society. Most of us follow them every day, without evening thinking about it. I’d imagine most of our elected officials follow whatever rules of conduct and behavior they work under without even thinking about it. The rules are a part of the culture in which each of us operates. I no more have to remind myself not to say “bomb” in an airport than an elected official should have to remind themselves there is a certain level of respect and decorum expected of them and encoded as a set of rules … and that shouting out “You lie!” during a speech by the President of the United States is completely unacceptable.
Joe Wilson did not get in trouble for what he said. It was where he said it. Free speech is still free, but no speech is guaranteed to be free from criticism and sometimes repercussions dependent upon location.
Footnotes- † “The Office of the House Historian said the resolution marked the first time in the 220-year history of the House that a member had been admonished for speaking out while the president was giving an address. A resolution of disapproval is less severe than other disciplinary action available to the House, including censure or expulsion.” I’d say that’s pretty damn rare. [↩]
Except when it was Bush, who the Democrats would then loudly booooo. :rolleyes:
Question for you my dear. How did the number of Americans who the government claim don’t have health insurance drop within a 2 month period from 47 million to 30 million, while the country’s unemployment has been steadly on the rise? In July of this year Obama was quoting the 47 million fogure, and now it is 30 million? :dizzy:
The 30 million figure is without the illegal immigrants, or that’s the explanation I read. Though I don’t know how they have anything like an exact figure for it anyway. No one has ever asked me or anyone I know.
Booing and grumbling are fine. Not against the rules. Sorry, but calling the President –or any House member– a liar (among other things) on the House floor is, in fact, against the rules. Has been since the early 1900′s.
Oh Jocko, Jocko, Jocko.
The big difference is Bush is a proven liar. Everyone was smart enough to see through his lies, except for his numerous blind supporters.
Obama wasn’t lying at all, Wilson was mistaken.
Orb,
“30 million figure is without the illegal immigrants”.
Exact de mudo there my friend, no illegal immigrants. So why was Obama referring to the 47 million in July of this year as Americans, who didn’t have health care? The news media have yet to ask him that question, and never will. So if Obama didn’t lie, he surly misspoke himself. You are correct, the 47 million is a pluck from air figure. It is very fluid and changes every single day, which should be another red flag why the government should stay out of health care.
When they, Congress, allow you and I to obtain health care insurance from outside our own states like we can with car and life insurance, then we will have made some progress. You want the government to be a watch dog for the health insurance industry, you do not want the government to administer your health care. Look at Medicare, Social Security, all are near bankrupt.
Although you are mostly Liberal minded with just a tad bit of Conservative thought running through your veins, I always like to read your different takes on the current issues facing this country. Let me as you a question. Who wrote HR 3200, and why is it no House member read the 1000 plus page bill before they voted on it? Why would you trust them? Seriously, why?
When they, Congress, allow you and I to obtain health care insurance from outside our own states like we can with car and life insurance, then we will have made some progress.
Or we’ll have another debacle like allowing credit cards to base themselves anywhere they like, as in where the rules suit their profits best.
Truth is, we used to not need health insurance. Sure, a policy to cover something huge and unexpected, but going in for a checkup required no paperwork at all … just an appointment and the payment. America doesn’t need health insurance. We don’t need middlemen to handle our money for us. All they have done is raise the cost of health care to the point where now insurance is needed just to see a doctor.
Who wrote HR 3200…
A variety of committees containing members of both parties, which is why it will end up being a piece of crap. If the Democrats had balls, they wouldn’t pay any attention to what the minority party wants. I don’t recall the Republicans paying much mind to anyone else when they had control of the White House and Congress.
and why is it no House member read the 1000 plus page bill before they voted on it?
Because they are stupid and lazy just like the vast majority of Americans.
“Why would you trust them? Seriously, why?”
Because unlike some of our elected officials, I have been reading the legislation, keeping up with changes, and paying attention to the smack-talking on the floors of the Senate and House. Additionally, I don’t watch the talking heads on TV or form my opinions based on any ridiculous thing they may say, and they have been saying some pretty damn ridiculous stuff lately.
Jocko
The Dems might of booed Dubya but I don’t believe any of them yelled “you lie” to Dubya. Dubya richly deserved it but they didn’t yell out. I think that is a big difference. The republicans also booed Clinton. Its time they all went back to kindergarten to learn how to be civil.
Also, how can you overlook all the crap left over from Dubya?? Remember Dubya the president that wasn’t going to leave a mess for the next administration?
Politicians have always had problems with numbers Dubya thought winning in 2000 by 600 votes was “a mandate from the people”.
It might be a D.C. problem with numbers. The teabaggers thought they had a million people in town last weekend. Now, it might of been a few tens of thousands.
Nice try at distracting us with the health care head count.
Tibertus,
Obviously you don’t gamble, or invest. In the end it all comes down to who won. 2000 by 600, 2004 by 3 million. No one cares if you win by a point or by landslide, he who wins, wins. Sounds like the dealers up card was an 7, you are holing a 13 and the guy to your right got your 8, you took a hit and got a 10 card. You busted, you lost, suck it up and move one. Your guy is now in the Oval Office and he has tripled the debt in 9 months, took over control of a number of major banks, took over control of 2 of the 3 auto makers (can’t wait to see their quarterly reports), and is now wanting to take over health care, plus unemployment stands at 9.8%. Change, and to think he is only 9 months into his first and hopefully only term.
10,000, or 1 million. Neither you or I were there, so why are you quoting figures on an event you didn’t attend, plus who the fuck cares. The US Park Police are the only ones responsible for providing the official number of estimated demonstrators in Washington, DC.. Americans are allowed to demonstrate, we have been doing it since we were just the colonies.
As far as a Health Care Insurance bill, I’m still waiting for Obama to submit his written plan, but he can’t seem to make up his mind what he wants to see in a bill, as he keeps changing his mind. Depending on the time of year and who he his addressing, he is either for, or aganist single payer/universal.
There is this thought held by some that American should no longer be a world leader, that America has had to good, America needs to see what it is like to be a 3rd world country (we were once, guess that doesn’t count), America has inflicted to much harm around the world (Freeing all those people from corrupt governments no longer counts), blah, blah, blah. My advise to these individuals, don’t let the door hit you in the ass on your way to Cuba, I understand they have a fantastic medical system there that is just the envy of the world.