Finding a transcript for the Bill O’Reilly interview of Michael Scheuer that I watched yesterday has proven difficult. Maybe it’s not up yet. Maybe it won’t ever be posted. Doesn’t matter, as I found the video on Youtube, so you can watch it yourself. I did transcribe the first few minutes of it, the part I mentioned yesterday, but I am not going to sit here any longer listening and transcribing.
O’Reilly: Let’s go to the torture. Both President Bush, when I interviewed him, and Mr. Tenet would not define what torture was, therefore it leaves the field wide open for the NYT and all the people overseas who don’t like America to say we are a torture nation, and the American people, they don’t know what exactly is coerced interrogation … torture. Can you clear that up at all?
Scheuer: I don’t know what the definition of torture is. I think people default to the Hollywood definition of bamboo shoots under the fingernails and drills through the teeth with no Novocain. That is certainly not the kind of thing that is done to anybody by the United States intelligence officers.
I think what you read in the paper about waterboarding or sleep deprivation or loud noise probably is accurate. I don’t think those fall anywhere near torture, and you have to juxtapose it against what we’re trying to do. Mr. Tenet was very accurate in saying that we don’t know what was going on in this country after 9/11.
O’Reilly: Right, so you used them. They were effective. So all these people that say “Oh, you never get anything from that,” they don’t know what they are talking about. We’ve discussed this before, that they just don’t know, because you do, you do, when you dunk people in the water or keep them up, some of these people give you stuff that save lives. That’s correct, right?
Scheuer: Some of it does. I would say that personally, I think we have to be very careful with the information you gather through this means, but it has indeed saved lives and it has indeed, as Mr. tenet said, provided some vision into Al Qaeda’s organization.
Should it disappear from YouTube, I do have the video file, but it’s in a format I would have to jump through hoops to post or watch. If need be, I will jump through the hoops, but I’d rather do something else with my day than learn all about flv files.
What about the plethora of misinformation that tactics like this provide? The person on the receiving end will do anything to stop the events which they are being subjected to. Maybe I am jaded after almost 16 years of military life.
Here is the article of the Geneva Convention that I think covers this:
Article 13
Prisoners of war must at all times be humanely treated. Any unlawful act or omission by the Detaining Power causing death or seriously endangering the health of a prisoner of war in its custody is prohibited, and will be regarded as a serious breach of the present Convention. In particular, no prisoner of war may be subjected to physical mutilation or to medical or scientific experiments of any kind which are not justified by the medical, dental or hospital treatment of the prisoner concerned and carried out in his interest.
Likewise, prisoners of war must at all times be protected, particularly against acts of violence or intimidation and against insults and public curiosity.
Measures of reprisal against prisoners of war are prohibited.
To me: And maybe I am being a Pollyana here, the acts listed by Sheurer fall under intimidation. But lets go further into the Geneva Convention, down to Article 17:
Article 17
Every prisoner of war, when questioned on the subject, is bound to give only his surname, first names and rank, date of birth, and army, regimental, personal or serial number, or failing this, equivalent information. If he wilfully infringes this rule, he may render himself liable to a restriction of the privileges accorded to his rank or status.
Each Party to a conflict is required to furnish the persons under its jurisdiction who are liable to become prisoners of war, with an identity card showing the owner’s surname, first names, rank, army, regimental, personal or serial number or equivalent information, and date of birth. The identity card may, furthermore, bear the signature or the fingerprints, or both, of the owner, and may bear, as well, any other information the Party to the conflict may wish to add concerning persons belonging to its armed forces. As far as possible the card shall measure 6.5 x 10 cm. and shall be issued in duplicate. The identity card shall be shown by the prisoner of war upon demand, but may in no case be taken away from him.
No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to any unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind.
I believe that last paragraph says NO PHYSICAL OR MENTAL TORTURE, NOR ANY OTHER FOR OF COERCION, MAY BE INFLICTED ON PRISONERS OF WAR TO SECURE FROM THEM INFORMATION OF ANY KIND. Bamboo shoots qualify as physical torture, but how does the CIA define mental torture. I mean making me watch a movie with Cameron Diaz qualifies as torture. It may not to the rest of the world. I also think that anyone who has stayed up in the 36+ hour range can attest to the overwhelming desire to do anything to get some sleep.
Okay, rant mode off… Sorry to steal your thunder on this!!!
Scheuer: “I think what you read in the paper about waterboarding or sleep deprivation or loud noise probably is accurate. I don’t think those fall anywhere near torture.”
O’Reilly: “Some of these people give you stuff that save lives. That’s correct, right?”
That screaming sound you hear? That’s me, shrieking in Atlanta.
Oh, but Donna, they aren’t prisoners of war! They are enemy combatants, and thus not under the protections of the Geneva Conventions! I’m sure you’ve heard that particular talking point before. :rolleyes:
Doesn’t matter what treaty you point to or what excuse they make for doing it, torture is torture. It’s wrong, and no good of any kind will come of it. I’ll tell you, with my phobia of drowning, you could waterboard me for all of ten seconds, and I would talk. Oh, would I talk. I would tell you any damned thing I thought you wanted to hear. I would make shit up. And if you kept me awake for days on end first, I’d wouldn’t even have to consciously make shit up. I’d be delusional and shit would just pour out of my psyche. It really wouldn’t be hard to make me confess to just about anything you wanted me to confess to, if you pushed the right buttons. That’s why it doesn’t freaking work.
And go ahead and rant. I like it when other people rant too. We need more ranting going on. Maybe eventually people will start listening.
Yeah, Tasha, if you have heard a high-pitched siren noise since yesterday evening, it isn’t your ears ringing. It’s me shrieking non-stop about this and the LAPD crap. The lower pitched hum is my husband. He’s not much of a ranter, but even he is starting to get loud and frothing at the mouth too. Years ago when I was making predictions about what I saw coming over the horizon, people called me crazy, even my own husband didn’t think it was going to ever get anywhere near as bad as I feared. Well, it is getting that bad, and we all need to be screaming about it.
Waterboarding not torture?! I still can’t believe I heard that, but it’s right there on the video. I wasn’t being delusional.
You know, I got tired of being a political blogger, so I cut way back on that and just wanted to talk about arts and crafts and cooking and kittens, you know, have some semblance of a normal life. It looks like that isn’t going to work out. If I don’t start ranting here, I will drive my husband insane or my head will explode. I guess I will be getting back to ranting like a crazed person again. At least it might help keep me mentally stable. :)
Enemy combatants/POW… Just like how the British labeled Thomas Jefferson a terrorist and traitor while we were calling him a patriot. The fact of the matter is that the CIA is using semantics to justify ILLEGAL tactics; tactics that can’t be used by the military (legally speaking. I know there are some interrogators out there who subscribe to the whatever is necessary theory, but I do know at least a few who don’t work that way-speaking of that-16 years of marriage today-where did the time go?)
If people want to justify this by saying its only enemy combatants, then don’t complain when they kidnap and place our soldiers and civilians on television, saying they can’t do that-its against the Geneva Convention. We can’t have it both ways but the CIA certainly seems to think so.
Wow, I am really on a tangent today!
The US government has played the semantics game for ages, but it’s gotten decidedly worse recently. It’s as though they believe, if they say something often enough … waterboarding isn’t torture … it will either become true or enough people will start agreeing with them that it might as well be true.
And you’re right … once you abandon the high road and stop doing the right thing because it’s right, you have no room at all to complain about anyone else doing the same (or worse). Sometimes you have to keep doing the right thing, even if there’s a possibility the costs of doing so might end up being high. Otherwise, you are just mucking around in the shit with all the other assholes, and complaining about what they are doing looks silly.
Re: Marriage — Yeah, where does the time go?! Congrats on 16 years of being able to put up with each other! :lol: